This podcast episode talks about how to talk to our children in regards to money and basic financial literacy. Dr. Robyn sits with Julia Cook, an award-winning children’s book author and delves deeply into this topic.
INTRODUCTION:
There are so many things we need to teach kids in this ever-changing world. As you know from this podcast and from my book, How to Talk to Kids about Anything, new topics pop up as the years go on and new technologies are developed and new issues become exposed. One thing that remains consistent? Our need to talk to kids about money. I devote my entire last chapter of How to Talk to Kids about Anything to this topic and boy did I have to learn a great deal from the financial experts while writing that one—about saving, spending, long term goals, medium term goals, investing, crypto in order to translate how to talk to kids about this big topic. Well, today, we are going to go back to the basics of this financial subject with our guest, Julia Cook.
Bio:
A former teacher and school counselor, JULIACOOK is an award-winning author of nearly 100 children’s books. Julia writes books for children that let them laugh while learning to solve their own problems, use better behavior, and develop healthy relationships. Julia and her books have been featured in CNN, Parents Magazine, The New Yorker, The Chicago Tribune, and more, and she does hundreds of school presentations each year. She lives in Fremont, Nebraska. She has a new book out with co-author, Garrett Gunderson—who’s book for adults, Money Unmasked, happens to be on my husband’s bedside table. We realized this when I was reading the children’s book, “I AM MONEY,” which we are talking about today—it gave us a good laugh that we were reading two books by the same author!
Important Messages:
Financial Literacy Advice: Parents don’t like to talk to kids sometimes about money because maybe they haven’t had the best track word themselves. But the whole point is if we can give kids great financial literacy advice and they can be smart with money, can you imagine when they are adults, the effects of their mental health? They will be less depressed, they will be less anxious and there will be more opportunity to give to others, which is the biggest portion of this book is, you take care of yourself first and you also take care of others. I interviewed several millionaires before and they all told me the same thing. You know, once you buy yourself a nice house and nice clothes and a nice car and you do fun things, the only thing money really does to make you feel good about it is when you use it for the greater good to help others in genuine way.
Money doesn’t grow on Trees: That’s kind of a catchall phrase. I’m money and I don’t grow on trees because that pulls people in. I always start out talking to kids and I have a big wad of pretend money that looks real money. And I said, you know, think about it for a minute. You go outside in the morning and you pull all the money off your money tree and you have a big old wad. And then you say, I want to go buy Lego set because look, I have the money now. And your mama says, okay, but we have to go get your haircut first. You go to the haircut place. And the haircut lady sitting in her chair counting the money, she pulled off her tree and says, I’m not in the mood to cut hair today. Because now that money grows on trees, I can just go pull off what I want. And so then, we talk this out and you go to the store, and the store’s closed because no one will work. Kids really don’t have a concept. And it used to be that you pull the money out of your pocket and pay for something.
Token Economy: It was a token economy. Now how do kids get it? I just get online and I push a button, it comes to my door, or my phone pays for it. I want was in a store, mommy, mommy, I want this. Well, we can’t afford it right now. Just pay with it with your phone. And so they don’t have a real grasp on the fact that what goes in, comes out, and where it needs to go. And so I look at the mental health of kids in the long run. That is my big focus. I want to make sure that we equip kids with the tools they need to solve problems. If we solve their problems for them, they might live with us when they’re 30. But if we can give them problem-solving tools to solve themselves, they will survive and they will win in the world.
Money Chases Value: If you can figure out what other people need, then you can earn as much money as you want or need. And so kids don’t believe that they don’t see this. But then I always tell them about this 10-year-old that I know that earned $5,000 last summer, selling electrolyte popsicles at baseball games. He took Gatorade and Powerade froze them into Popsicle molds and sold them for a dollar. And then I have a young man who is 10 years old, and once a month he poop scoops my yard for $20. I don’t want to poop scoop my yard, but I’ll pay him $20 to do it. He has 20 yards, and then he takes that $400 and he’s earned it because he provides a service that somebody else will value. And then he takes the poop and he takes it to the yard, the gardening center, and they pay him for the poop.
The Sky is the limit: And then I talked to them about three young entrepreneurs. One is six, one is 15, and one is now 14. All they did was figure out a cool thing that they were really good at doing. And then they started doing that for people. And you never say, I can’t afford that. You say, what can I do to earn enough money to afford it? We live in an amazing country where nobody says, I’m sorry, Dr. Robyn, you’ve already earned all the money you can earn today. You’re done. You can’t earn any more. The sky is the limit. And all it takes is a little bit of work and some creativity. But kids know it’s amazing when they find out, wow, I can do this. If other kids have done this, I can do this.
Commission/Not Allowance: Before we get off earning, we are kind of conditioned to say, I’m giving you allowance. We don’t like to call it allowance because you’re allowed to just have this money and do nothing. I mean, our world is like, the harder you work and the more services you provide, the more value you create. And money chases value. So it’s a work and it’s, and so, we don’t say allowance. We say commission.
Savings: Now, when it comes to saving, savings kind of has for some people a negative connotation. When you tell a kid what they have to do, they use one-eighth of their brain. When you tell them what they get to do, seven-eighths of their brain light up. So you get to, for every month, every bit of money you earn or receive, you get to pay yourself first. I always tell kids the story that things happen in the world that you just don’t ever plan on. I have a little neighbor boy, who accidentally broke a window in my house. And I love this kid and I didn’t want him to get in trouble. And I said, don’t worry, I’ll just pay for it.
Clear Jar: And so the window guy came out and he wanted 700 bucks to fix the window. So I called my insurance company and they want $2,000 more a year premium if I make a claim. So I have to pay, I need to pay that $700. I have to use my savings because it is just, we paid ourselves first to protect ourselves. So if something happens that we really need to lie, you know, that that’s a safety thing. And then we always say, use a clear jar, because if you put them inside a dark pig, you can’t see it grow. Yes. So using a clear jar is, is a great way to watch money grow.
Enjoy and Balance: Some people save and save, and then they grow old, and then their kids fly first class and they don’t ever enjoy, you know, when you work hard, you need to be able to enjoy your money in a balanced way. So we want to teach kids about that. But you know, kids don’t really grasp the concept of “I want it now.” So we talk about doing the smart thing. If you want something but you spend your money right now, you can’t buy something later. Sometimes we have to give them a little experience with that.
Come back, Save & Earn it: One of the cool ways to teach kids is if they want something and they don’t have enough money, you say to your child, you can go try to pay for that, but there’s probably a good chance that you won’t have enough money to pay for that. And then come back here and we’ll talk about it. Because If you just say, oh no, you don’t have enough for that, and now you don’t want to humiliate them or anything, because if your kid does that, they’ll look at you like, okay, chip in. This is a learning opportunity where they go and try to pay for something and you say, I’m right here for you. If you don’t have enough money, you come back and we will talk about how you can earn more money so that you can get that. The hard thing is, let’s go home and think about it overnight. It’s not going anywhere. And we can go online if we have to, but let’s really think about it if that’s how you want to spend your money, because this impulse buying is just killing our people
(Dr. Robyn) Delayed Gratification: My mom always used to tell me, if you love it, buy it, if you love it. So I still have that in my head when I’m looking at something. Do I love it? And so now I have this where like, I see something. If I really think, Ooh, I love that. Even if I’m like a little on the fence, I might leave the store and come back and visit it a couple of times, you know, if it’s like close by and if I’m still thinking about it like a week later, I know I really want that. It’s not easy, but really important. And we want to help kids to learn how to do this when they’re young, we have a chance for them to use the money on things that maybe don’t matter quite as much when they’re older and they’re paying rent and they need to save money for food and they need to pay different bills. Those stakes are high. So we want to teach kids when the stakes are low to make the mistake of trying to save, to spend on the wrong thing. And then when they’re older and they have a chance to spend it on the right things, they’ll make the right choices.
Giving Kids the tools to be Responsible: Kids are going to learn about money one way or another. And we develop human habits most effectively between the ages of 6 to 10. So the minute your kid can start counting is the minute you start to infuse these concepts. Sometimes the rule of hard knocks is not great. But if we can be responsible about giving the kids the tools they need to be responsible with money, we do a great job. And then we never ever want to tell them we don’t know everything. And you always want to keep learning and learning about money because everybody, money changes and the ways we spend it change, and opportunities for money change. So nobody knows everything.
Importance of Authentic Learning: A kid in order to learn something, they have to see it, they have to hear it, they have to feel it, they have to do it, and they have to be able to teach somebody else. So until a child actually feels what it feels like on the inside to give something, to give up something that they care about so that other people can benefit from that giving feeling, it’s not authentic. But once they catch, I mean, it’s just like when you give gifts to your children, you are so excited to see what they are going to do and how they are going to react to
Teaching Empathy and Generosity: I have a five-year-old grandson, and one of the things that at holiday time I wanted him to do was to take his money and spend it on a toy for another kid, and then take that toy to the shelter so another boy could have a toy. And he goes, well, just use your money. And I said, no. because If I use my money, I’m the one that’s going to feel good. I want you to feel how amazing it is. And it was hard prying open that little kid’s wallet, but he did it. And I let him pay for it. I let him pick it out. And I was like, standing by the cashier. He did the whole thing. Then the guy at the homeless shelter was amazed at him because we walked in and I said this young man used his own money to buy a toy for another kid who might not have so many things. And he said, wow, I can only imagine how amazing you must be feeling that is. And all of a sudden he just like, whoa. Yeah! He got a taste of doing great things for people. And kids are going to do what makes them feel good.
Modeling Behavior: If you model that by doing it yourself, and then just say, oh, I just feel so good. And, you know, you’re your child’s best teacher, so they watch you. If you impulse by, they’re going to impulse by. If you find kind ways to do nice things for people, they’re going to do the same thing. Parents end up having kind children. Yes. Unkind parents have unkind children. And if you give them the money to pay for something, it’s not the same thing. They have to sacrifice and then get rewarded.
(Dr. Robyn) Promoting Generosity Through Experience: When my kids would have birthday parties, I would have them, instead of getting gifts in lieu of gifts they would give to charity. And they would be just surrounded by all this stuff. Then I would have my kids go to the dog shelter. I wanted them to look into the faces of the people who were collecting it. I wanted them to visit with the dogs. So we would do that. Every time I would make sure that they interact with the person who was collecting the stuff so they can hear where it is going and what’s happening with it.
(Dr. Robyn) Euphoric Feeling of Giving: My son had collected all these teddy bears for a place called Casa which gives a teddy bear to every child who has been extracted from their home due to neglect or abuse. And they’re always given a bear. And I just wanted him to just keep remembering. So every time I would make sure that they would have an interaction with the person who was collecting the stuff so they could hear where is it going, what was happening with this stuff. If it’s money, you want them to be able to have a connection with the end user, or at least the people who are going to be disseminating the money. Because otherwise it feels too removed. And they don’t get that full euphoric feeling like, I’m doing something really important here.
The Reward: You know, we teach our kids baseball and then the reward is when they get a hit and everybody cheers them on. We teach our kids music, and the reward is when they do a recital and they perform. If we teach our kids giving, and then we allow them to experience the greatness they feel, boy, you’re walking to the car with your boy and you say, wow, I bet you’re standing a little bit taller now, aren’t you? I can only imagine how good you must be feeling. That is extremely powerful. So your kids, Dr. Robyn will always want that to be a part of their lives because they know how great it feels and it is genuine.
(Dr. Robyn) Draw me a Picture: You can also ask them when somebody receives this sweater that you decided that you no longer want, but is in great shell shape, or when somebody opens this new baseball bat that you contributed because you were giving sports equipment to those who were less fortunate, what do you think their face is going to look like? What do you think they’ll say out loud? Draw me a picture.
Letter of Connection: Even another thing too that’s really powerful, if you’re giving to a shelter, have the kid write a letter to the kids and say, I just want you to be happy and I want to give this to you. Love blank. So that they have some kind of a connection.
Real Story: When you take a real story that they(kids) can relate to, then they create feelings about what you say and it makes sense. That is why I try to write books that, you know, the book is a vehicle to get the good stuff in their head. So the kids relate to money and feel the emotion and they see it and they do it, and they are money when they’re reading the book.
Notable Quotables:
If we can give kids great financial literacy advice and they can be smart with money, can you imagine when they are adults, the effects on their mental health? They will be less depressed, they will be less anxious and there will be more opportunities to give to others.
I want to ensure we equip kids with the tools they need to solve problems. If we solve their problems for them, they might live with us when they’re 30. But if we can give them problem-solving tools to solve themselves, they will survive and they will win in the world.
I want to make sure that we equip kids with the tools they need to solve problems. If we solve their problems for them, they might live with us when they’re 30. But if we can give them problem-solving tools to solve themselves, they will survive and they will win in the world.
The sky is the limit. And all it takes is a little bit of work and some creativity. But kids know it’s amazing when they find out, wow, I can do this. If other kids have done this, I can do this.
We don’t like to call it allowance because you’re allowed to just have this money and do nothing. I mean, our world is like, the harder you work and the more services you provide, the more value you create. And money chases value. So it’s work, so we don’t say allowance. We say commission.
Kids are going to learn about money one way or another. And we develop human habits most effectively between ages six to 10. So the minute your kid can start counting is the minute you start to infuse these concepts. Sometimes the rule of hard knocks is not great. If we can be responsible about giving the kids the tools they need to be responsible with money, we do a great job.
(Dr. Robyn) If it’s money, you want them to be able to have a connection with the end user, or at least the people who are going to be disseminating the money. Because otherwise it feels too removed. And they don’t get that full euphoric feeling like, I’m doing something really important here.
You know, we teach our kids baseball and then the reward is when they get a hit and everybody cheers them on. We teach our kids music, and the reward is when they do a recital and they perform. If we teach our kids to give, and then we allow them to experience the greatness they feel.
r, and they pay him for the poop.
If we can give kids great financial literacy advice and they can be smart with money, can you imagine when they are adults, the effects on their mental health? They will be less depressed, they will be less anxious and there will be more opportunities to give to others.
