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How to Talk to Kids about Gender and Identity
This podcast will focus on gender and identity. What it means to be a tomboy in 2020? How is kids’ concept of gender formed? Lisa Selin Davis and Dr. Robyn Silverman discuss “boy territory,” “girl territory,” and what happens when the boundaries get blurred.
Guest Expert: Lisa Selin Davis
Are we in the middle of a cultural revolution? With conversations around the spectrum of 
gender and sexual identities more common, where people fall on the gender continuum seems unlimited. And yet, my next guest admits she grew hesitant when her own daughter, at the age of 6, declared herself a tomboy- was this accurate? Was this term outdated? Was it time to retire a descriptive word for girls that had the word “boy” in it and so much history- both positive and negative? In an era where some are throwing elaborate gender reveal parties and others are embracing they/them pronouns, it’s a good time to find out where tomboys fit into our changing understandings of gender.
LISA SELIN DAVIS is an essayist, novelist, and journalist who has written for major publications such as the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Guardian, Time, Yahoo, and Salon, among many others. She lives with her family in New York. Davis continues to write for major publications such as the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Women’s Day, Bustle, Salon, Yahoo, Time Out, and more, and her articles often open the door to both debate and celebration. Most recently, in December 2018, another article she wrote for the New York Times, “Like Tomboys and Hate Girlie Girls? That’s Sexist,” went viral and sparked almost 400 comments.
Important Messages:
- The term tomboy isn’t used that much- just fashion and a sexuality in Asia.
- Gender non-conforming. Bucking gender norms.
- Many think gender non-conformity is a problem- but actually it’s very psychologically healthy for kids.
- Those who buck gender norms- Research shows more creative, do better academically, more successful
- Our range of “normal” has gotten more narrow since the 1980s.
- We gender personality traits, toys, clothes, colors. Idea of girl stuff and boy stuff- more and more narrow.
- Katharine Hepburn- lived confidently in whatever way she wanted.
- Birth rate declined- prevent hand-me-downs- they made the pink/blue divide. Savvy way to sell stuff-> now kids’ lives are organized in this way based on gender. Gender is manufactured and sold.
- Kids trying to master their sex (their bodies) and their gender stereotypes in preschool. Police each other. Kids have to be deeply driven not to be swayed by the gender norms.
- In an interesting time- so many gender identities. But when everything is divided that way, what are the implications? Adults come to think that this is biological when it’s completely manufactured. Kids not given a chance to explore.
- Girls pick up that “girly” is an insult.
- Proving their membership in the group- princess worship- then they go through a tomboy phase by rejecting what is associated with a particular sex group. Where did you get your idea of what is normal for boys and girls?
- Boys learn that things associated with the girl category is bad so they have to defend their turf in the boy category. Hyper gendered. Crisis around toxic masculinity, eating disorders, confidence issues.
- TIP: Refuse to gender material goods, activities, personality traits!
- Stop having boy toy and girl toy of the year. Stop boy/girl aisles. Ask schools to stop the divide. Micro to macro.
- Talk to kids: “You were born with a certain sex. That is your body. Your body is not actually predictive of who you will be. It doesn’t tell me what kind of person you are going to love, it doesn’t tell me what you’re going to do, it doesn’t tell me what kind of personality you are doing to have.” Your body doesn’t forecast your personality or your interests or the person you are going to be. Must decouple the idea that your body predicts anything of what you are going to do.
- Boys who want to embrace “girly things”. Some give warning- people will make fun of them. Others just allow their boys to do the behavior and endure social ridicule. Implicit bias. Police each other (similar to how they acquire views of race). Room for exploration when we don’t label.
- There are all kinds of ways for girls to look and be.
- Need to arm your child with language. World isn’t always going to bend to you.
- “Girls look all different ways.”
- How ridiculous that a color belongs to one sex or another!”
- Talk to your kids about how people have these crazy ideas that we should divide all the stuff of childhood into two camps (for boys or for girls)—and how we’re not going to do it!
- “Your body doesn’t predict anything about who you are.”
- Is it about identity or about behavior?
- If your child is gender-nonconforming, you’ve been given a gift because you don’t have to spend all of your time undoing the culture’s messages. If you have a child who is not doing what all the other boys or all the other girls are doing, you won!”
- Self confidence- being comfortable around men or raised with boys or raised without gender bias.
- If you have a child who is in distress, you can do what you need to do to help them.
- Make pink and blue open to everyone- fully human issue that applies to all humans.
- There is a connection between gender nonconformity and homosexuality but not always.
- Sex and gender are fully enmeshed. Support child no matter what- you don’t need to label anyone in any particular way unless they need some psychic relief. Do we need to get rid of categories that have been artificially narrowed or have many categories and let people find their way into them?
- Hyper-gendering of childhood is not good for them.
- Prepare our kids with the complexity of gender- and as adults, not to get so obsessed with the line- if she doesn’t want to play princesses, and if he does!
- BIG QUESTION: Where did your idea of normal come from and do you need to not only subscribe to it but reinforce it with your kids?
Notable Quotables:
- “Kids who straddle the pink/blue divide are having more access to more toys, more games, more friends and more of life which allows them to grow into more well-rounded human beings.”
- “The pressures [to conform to gender norms] are so woven into our kids’ material world that adults don’t even see them.”
- “It’s really insidious now how gender is manufactured and sold and how it narrows the range of ‘normal’ for boys and girls.”
- “The discussions about toxic masculinity stems from presenting such a narrow range of normal to boys that they can’t cry, they can’t wear a whole bunch of colors in the rainbow, that they can’t experiment, they can’t like things that are pretty, that they can’t play with girls. And what girls learn is that anything that is labeled “for girls” no matter how arbitrary it is (pink, case in point), is less than and that girly is an insult.”
- “Where did parents get their ideas of what is normal for boys and girls? We have to know where these stereotypes come from and that we don’t have to participate in it.”
- “Get rid of the idea that there is boy stuff and girl stuff- from toys to personality traits. Let them experiment. Insist on it in your house and demand it from the culture.”
- “Your body doesn’t forecast the person you are going to be. We must decouple the idea that your body predicts anything of what you are going to do.”
- “The way a child is when they are rejecting gender norms, we don’t need to come to any conclusions about who that child is going to be.”
- If your child is gender-nonconforming, you’ve been given a gift because you don’t have to spend all of your time undoing the culture’s messages. If you have a child who is not doing what all the other boys or all the other girls are doing, you won!”
- “Making more of the ‘pink side’ and the ‘blue side’ available to everybody is often mistaken for an LGBTQ issue but it’s actually a fully human issue that applies to all children.”
- “Do we need to get rid of categories that have been artificially narrowed or have many categories and let people find their way into them?”
- “I would love for more parents and educators to understand children’s gender development and to really help kids from a really young age feel free to access both sides of the pink-blue divide. I would love to see how our world changes if we do that.”
- “Where did your idea of normal come from and do you need to not only subscribe to it but reinforce it with your kids?”
