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How to Talk to Girls about Collaboration and Confidence with Dr. Katie Hurley and Riley Hurley

This podcast episode explores the essence of celebrating individual strengths and fostering teamwork in children for enhanced collaboration and confidence, Dr. Katie Hurley and Riley Hurley discuss their book ‘Fiona McPhee: Please Listen to Me’. with Dr. Robyn.

 

INTRODUCTION:

Being a kid isn’t always a walk in the park or, “child’s play”. You remember, right? There is so much learning going on. How can I get my point across without bossing people around? How can show confidence without being dominant? How can I be a leader and still be collaborative? It takes good communication skills. As we’ve talked about in previous podcasts and in Chapter 2 and Chapter 8 of my book, How to Talk to Kids about Anything—Chapter 2 that centers on Self-Esteem and Confidence and Chapter 8 that focuses on friendships and friendship issues, everyone of us has strengths and everyone of us has things to work on—and the secret is owning our strengths, recognizing the strengths of others and also, working on our shortcomings—and learning from others. There’s also the art of collaborating—and we are going to talk to 2 wonderful collaborators today who will shine light on all of this.

Bio:

Katie Hurley, DSW, LCSW is a child and adolescent psychotherapist, parenting educator, public speaker, and writer. She is the founder of “Girls Can!” empowerment groups for girls between ages 5-11. Dr. Hurley is the senior clinical advisor of The Jed Foundation (JED), a nonprofit dedicated to youth and young adult mental health and suicide prevention. Dr. Hurley is the author of the award-winning No More Mean Girls: The Secret to Raising Strong, Confident, and Compassionate Girls, The Depression Workbook for Teens: Tools to Improve Your Mood, Build Self-Esteem, and Stay Motivated, and The Happy Kid Handbook: How to Raise Joyful Children in a Stressful World. She now has a new book out—a children’s book, called Fiona McPhee, Please Listen to Me! And..

The illustrator of this book is Riley Hurley, Dr. Hurley’s daughter. Riley, 17, junior in high school, has loved art since the very first moment she held a crayon. She is now in the Visual Arts Pathway at El Segundo High School and the pre-collegiate certificate program at Rhode Island School of Design (RISD). She hopes to one day inspire others with her art and make a difference in the world.

Important Messages:

  • Sharing Stories Through Arts (Dr. Katie): People have so many different hidden talents and sometimes the loudest person in the room gets the most eyes on them, but sometimes the quietest person in the room might have the most to offer. We have always kind of talked about what are the different strengths that people have. Riley uses her art, Dr. Robyn and I use our writing to get our work across and out there to people while my husband uses his music, so there are so many different ways to tell stories share narratives, and help each other out. And we really wanted to showcase that for young kids.
  • Collaboration -The Making of “Fiona McPhee” (Dr. Katie): Collaboration takes a lot of patience, definitely for everybody involved, because everyone has a different process. It takes a lot of trust. When I sent in the first draft of the copy of the story, because I only wrote the story, Ri brought it to life but if it were up to me, it was just words on a page, she brought the story to life. So when I first sent in the first draft, my editor was phenomenal in the areas where I struggled to find the right rhyme or to find just the right pacing of the words, she was able to come in. And this was a total girl power project, by the way. The editor was female, the acquisition editor was female, and the graphic designer who helped Riley with illustrations was female. So this was a real girl power experience, and we all took turns using our strengths to take what were words on a page and bring it to life into this what I hope is an amazing, you know, storyline for kids to learn. And it is not just for girls, it is for everybody, every gender across the gender spectrum. But to really learn how to work together, I would say patience and understanding each other’s work processes is really important.
  • Listening to People’s Ideas (Riley): Also just listening to other people’s ideas. I mean, whenever I would ask my mom, “Oh how did you envision this story coming to life? How did you envision this character? And she said, “Oh well, how did you do it?” Definitely listening to each other and just being there for the trial and error of character design and all the colors used.
  • The Strengths of Fiona McPhee (Riley): She’s very extroverted and fun-loving, with many bright ideas and an eagerness to start projects. While often praised as a great leader due to her bubbly personality, she needs to learn to tone it down and listen to other people’s ideas to achieve the best results.
  • Trust and Collaboration (Dr. Katie): I would just add to that we talked a little bit about trust in the process of collaborating. Fiona is really working on learning to trust that her friends also have good ideas and are capable of bringing those ideas to life and really adding something because she’s such a go-getter. And I actually identify with Fiona. I was not as extroverted as her, that would be my oldest sister. But I’m a partially reformed control freak, I always say. So, I was the one who did the group project. If it was school and there was a group project, I was like, just let me get it done so that it gets done great. I had to learn as I grew, I had to learn to step back and say, wait a minute, just because I know I can do all of this doesn’t mean I should do all of this without asking for input. And it could be better if more people worked on it.
  • Stepping Back ( Dr. Robyn): As my mother said, been my father’s daughter who had the philosophy, that if you want it done right, do it yourself. When you grow up in that world, you have to learn how to step back and allow other people to shine, knowing that while you have strengths, others may use their strengths in ways you hadn’t anticipated. The work actually gets better by stepping back and letting others step up. I also like that the book doesn’t say, “Hey, you need to just be quiet.” It says, yes, allow people to provide their ideas, but that there is a collaborative nature, meaning you’re still using your voice. It doesn’t mean you need to be quiet and not say anything. You need to listen to other people’s ideas. When you pool your strengths, something beautiful can happen. Wouldn’t you agree with that?
  • Team Dynamics (Dr. Katie): I think a lot about Ri and her closest friend who’s also named Ri, and they’ve grown up together since kindergarten. Ri is very loud, talkative, and bubbly, and commands a room easily. It’s a skill she has that’s really good. I always say that about my older sister, Kara. When we go to an event together, I push her in first to warm up the crowd, and then I come in and answer questions. That’s how Ri and Ri are. When you see them working on something together, like planning a Friendsgiving dinner for their group of friends last fall, it really works. Ri Hurley has a lot of ideas, and Ri Abrams gathers people together and delegates tasks. Together, they put together this amazing meal for their friends, and at times I wondered if it would come together, but it did. Ri Hurley quietly figured out what the tasks were and how everything would work, while Ri Abrams disseminated the information and helped the vision come to life.
  • Assertive Communication (Dr. Katie): So there’s one page in the book it’s sort of toward the denouement where Fiona is realizing, wait a minute, this might not be working the way I thought it would. And one of the friends holds up a sign that says, listen to us and she’s using her voice by putting up a poster to remind Fiona that we are here. What I love about Riley’s illustrations in this book are the facial expressions. So sometimes you see an eye roll, or sometimes you see wide eyes of frustration and body posture showing we are trying to work on this too. And that’s important. One thing we don’t always think to teach kids is how to hold their shoulders back and stand up when they want to say something. You don’t have to be loud to be assertive. You just have to use your voice. Even voice tone, you speak in your regular voice but hold your shoulders back and look the person in the eye if you can. Not everyone can make eye contact because of neurodiversity, and sometimes eye contact is difficult. So I often teach young people to look to the side or just beyond the person, so that at least you’re face to face as you express your thoughts, feelings, and needs in a kind, but confident voice tone. We don’t have to be the loudest one in the room. We just have to take our turn and share our thoughts.
  • Finding Her Voice(Dr. Katie): We saw that in Ri’s early education, definitely in first, and second grade. We ended up moving her to a different, smaller school by third grade. But in her public school, which is a lovely school here, the constant feedback was, “Be louder, be louder.” The more they told her to be louder, the quieter she became because she was mortified by being told to be louder and felt like she was doing it wrong all the time. When she switched to a smaller school that was more collaborative and had a different teaching approach, she was empowered. By the time she went back to our public school for high school, she really had her voice and was able to share it in a great way. She’s still not the loudest person in the room but she’s She always tell me that she add thoughtful feedback in her classes. That’s a lesson for young kids to learn. You don’t have to talk all the time, but you can talk when you have thought it through and when you have ideas to share, and that’s important.
  • Character Portrayals: Drawing Inspiration from Personal Connections(Riley): I wanted to portray Fiona to be so like my best friend because her extroverted personality reminded me of that. And I made Fiona a redhead because my best friend Riley has red hair and she never saw herself in books. So I wanted to definitely make sure that Fiona has the “Ri” feel that I know so well and love. And then also Avery because she’s the artist of the group. And I just, I wanted to portray myself through her and how she was just kind of quiet. She always felt like the one on the sidelines and she is a supporting character, but she still has equal strengths to share when she gets the chance. On the last page, I really wanted all the girls to be bright and have their personalities shine through.
  • Social Dynamics(Dr. Katie): One thing I always say first is that we should talk about the process before helping them figure out what to say. What does it mean when a kid only wants to be with one person all the time? Where does that come from? Because there’s usually something underneath the surface, like trouble making friends in the past or feeling most confident when they’re one-on-one with someone. So I would discuss the potential back-stories and then work out language. I often encourage parents to have kids help work out the language for these scenarios because, although we have good ideas and can provide guidance, we’re not kids. Language changes with different generations, so kids are the best consumers of the current language.
  • Encouraging Positive Communication(Dr. Robyn):  I agree there is specific language that can be helpful, and we have to ensure that our kid feels comfortable saying it. I remember coaching a kid who was in a relationship where the other person constantly said mean things about his hair, clothes, and more. This kid, who was funny, came up with a witty response that stopped the behavior without being mean, showing that it has to fit the kid’s personality. So when I’m presenting on strength finding in schools and companies, one of the exercises I like to do is have friends or colleagues turn to each other and say what strengths they see in the other person. We have kind of talked a little bit about, these strengths and how everybody has them, but sometimes friends don’t actually highlight those strengths in others and it can be so influential. There have been times when I have heard from parents, weeks after months after that said, you did this exercise and it was majorly influential on my kid because it was the first time she ever heard her friend say, I really think this is special about you. And she’s still talking about it.
  • Building Positive Perspective (Dr. Katie): I have kids interview each other about their interests, favorite things, what they like to do in their free time, the types of books they read, and more. They can ask whatever they want. Then they create a billboard. For example, Ri would make one for me, titled “Katie Hurley: Meet Katie Hurley,” highlighting my strengths and interesting traits. We’d trade and tell each other how we see one another, fostering positive perspectives.
  • Advantage of Positive Perspective (Dr. Robyn): It can actually work with some adults and when they think they’re being perceived as somebody who is, oh, I’m really trustworthy, people can come to me and tell me everything. And people are like, wait a second, no, I don’t feel that way. I don’t feel comfortable coming to you. That’s something they need to learn. So early on, when we can highlight somebody’s strengths and that they can learn about things that they can work on to be a better friend, that can be really advantageous. It’s later on in life when we find out, we’re like, oh gosh, I’ve got some work to do and now I have to unravel all of these habits I’ve had for a very long time. I think that everybody can learn something from this relationship book.
  • Empowering Collaboration(Dr. Katie): I hope that kids and adults walk away knowing or feeling that when we frontload kids to work together to find each other’s strengths and celebrate each other’s strengths, everybody reaches a little bit higher. Everybody succeeds a little bit more.
  • Embracing Individuality(Riley): I just, I hope that kids walk away from reading “Fiona McPhee” knowing that like, oh, I am special. Because it’s easy to see only insecurities about yourself and like, oh, I’m not good at math but I’m good at art. You need to look at the positive and just know that everyone has strengths in their own way. And again, whether you’re the quietest or loudest kid in the room, you are special and you do have something to offer. And I want kids to just know that and to be able to see themselves in the book.

Notable Quotables:

  • “People have so many different hidden talents and sometimes the loudest person in the room gets the most eyes on them, but sometimes the quietest person in the room might have the most to offer. “ – Dr. Katie Hurley
  • “To learn how to work together, patience and understanding each other’s work processes is important.” – Dr. Katie Hurley
  • “I had to learn as I grew, I had to learn to step back and say, wait a minute, just because I know I can do all of this doesn’t mean I should do all of this without asking for input. And it could be better if more people worked on it.” – Dr. Katie Hurley
  • “The work actually gets better by stepping back and letting others step up. You need to listen to other people’s ideas. When you pool your strengths, something beautiful can happen.” – Dr. Robyn Silverman
  • “We don’t have to be the loudest one in the room. We just have to take our turn and share our thoughts.” – Dr. Katie Hurley
  • “You don’t have to talk all the time, but you can talk when you have thought it through and when you have ideas to share, and that’s important.” – Dr. Katie Hurley
  • “What does it mean when a kid only wants to be with one person all the time? Where does that come from? Because there’s usually something underneath the surface, like trouble making friends in the past or feeling most confident when they’re one-on-one with someone. So I would discuss the potential back-stories and then work out language. I often encourage parents to have kids help work out the language for these scenarios because, although we have good ideas and can provide guidance, we’re not kids. Language changes with different generations, and so kids are the best consumers of current language.” – Dr. Katie Hurley
  • “There is specific language that can be helpful, and we have to ensure that our kid feels comfortable saying it.” – Dr. Robyn Silverman
  • “When we front load kids to work together and to find each other’s strengths and celebrate each other’s strengths, everybody reaches a little bit higher. Everybody succeeds a little bit more.” – Dr. Katie Hurley
  • “It’s easy to see only insecurities about yourself, you need to look at the positive and just know that everyone has strengths in their own way. Whether you’re the quietest or loudest kid in the room, you are special and you do have something to offer” – Riley Hurley

Resources:

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